Jehs and Laub, the dynamic design duo working out of Stuttgart, Germany but recognized worldwide, make no compromises. They have clearly identified what they love to do, and they do just that: Design. They don’t manage the engineering, they don’t have a huge design studio, and they only work with companies that they are aligned with. This might explain why their work is so wonderfully executed and why they have been working seamlessly together for nearly two decades under the moniker Jehs + Laub. They found their groove and they’re sticking to it. Jürgen Jehs and Markus Laub met in University and, as you will hear in this interview, their professor suggested they create a company together. And soon enough, they did. Today, their designs have been put into production by leading brands around the world: Knoll, Herman Miller, Fritz Hansen, Architonic and many others. We spoke about the way they met, what inspired them to work together, the importance of discourse and whether their wives ever feel jealous of their partnership. Apparently, they don’t.
Laub:
We had been little bit in competition, so everything started as we had been in the university to apply, and there was a test, and Markus sit directly beside me. This was the first contact to this guy, and I saw and he saw that both are not bad, and as we started with our course half a year later, we had the first project, and then we had been a little bit in competition who does the better project, do I have to add something to be better or whatever.
Laub:
So this was a nice competition, but it was not a friendship. The friendship came as we started our internship in New York.
“When we started designing furniture, we said that designing a skyscraper is really easy. You just find a shape for something and then, it’s there. And then, you sit, you have all your employees and they have to find out what’s going on inside the skyscraper.”
Arkitektura:
Very cool. Yeah, it’s interesting that later that what we would call tenacity, that drive showed up again in your professional life together when you initially started working together and decided to go to Italy and build your career in these very early years. One of the things that I love about what I’ve read about you is that the primary beginning of a project, and maybe the most important part of a project is not so much the process of how it’s made or what ultimately comes out, but that initial discourse that happens between the two of you. I wondered how competition, what was initially competition turned into this kind of compatible discourse.
Jehs:
For example, my problem always was that when I work with someone together, I had always the impression that it’s not 200%, it’s less. But when I work with him, it was more than 200%, and this turned my view on the team-working process.
Jehs:
It was from the first day when we worked together that it was really very efficient. We are very fast. What is also important is that the other guy has the distance. So if one has an idea, the other comes and says, “Oh, this is a bad idea. We should do maybe something different,” or he sees something different in the idea, and then, we discuss the idea. This is a very important process to us. After a discussion or a fight, there is always something happening so that one of us can do the sketch or to work on the computer to visualize our discussion. And then, the discussion goes further and further, and this is a very fast and efficient process. This impressed me a lot when I was a young student that you can be as good and as fast as when we work together.
Laub:
In school we had a little competition, but now since we work together, we have no competition. We have the same mission.
Arkitektura:
Can you almost read each other’s minds?
Laub:
Pardon?
Jehs:
Yes. Yes.
Arkitektura:
Yeah? You feel like you can?
Jehs:
It starts when he does the first sketch or the first line on the paper or he starts the first word, I know what he wants to say, and the other way around.
Arkitektura:
Amazing. Amazing.
Jehs:
Once we had guys who were working with us and after some discussions, they said, “What’s your problem with me?” and we said, “Your problem is that you cannot read our minds.”
Arkitektura:
Yeah. Can anyone else read your minds in your life?
Jehs:
Maybe our wives, but in a different way, and it’s always different. Yeah, it’s difficult to explain. And the important thing also about working together in that way is that it never should be personal. It should only be objective. So you discuss and it’s not important who has the idea and who has a bad idea, and when one is telling the other what a stupid idea that it’s not a problem, if you say that.
Laub:
And even if it is a fight, it is not personal. It’s an emotional discussion.
Arkitektura:
It’s an intellectual discussion, you mean?
Laub:
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. Not an emotional discussion.
Laub:
Emotional … I don’t know if that’s the right word, but if you get emotions, you get maybe loud and you explode or whatever. You fight, but only to end up with a solution. Honestly, I miss that as I work in the US at Smart Design, all the people had been so nice and the solutions for the design had been very nice and lovely, and I always thought no, it’s not good enough, we should discuss it but nobody wanted to discuss the … I don’t know, it was … How do you say in English … it’s too harmonious …
Arkitektura:
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I think that Americans often view disagreement even if it’s a creative disagreement as conflict. I think Europeans, I know I’m generalizing are more attuned to really piecing something apart and not making it feel like it’s a personal thing if you disagree with someone and that might be why maybe some of the best design comes out of Europe.
Arkitektura:
Another thing that is interesting is that you run a really lean studio, so it’s just the two of you and your assistants. Is that true?
Laub:
Yes, that’s true. The assistants are our students. It’s our way to teach directly to persons, and so, we have always two students and they may do whatever we do so they get the project, they do the process, they try to solve it in the same way and they change every half a year, and we like it that way.
Arkitektura:
And then, everything else is contractual, outsourced?
Laub:
Yes. Yes. A few years ago, we decided that everything, which is not design, we try to avoid so engineering, model-building, doing renderings or things like that, other designers maybe tried to earn money also with this part of the design, we try to avoid because we would like to work at the essence of the design so really designing until we know how it looks like, how it should be, and then, we give it to the engineers or whoever, to proceed.
Arkitektura:
Even down to the modeling, I mean you just focus on the design which is probably the dream of many designers because what happens is they grow and their studios grow and maybe sometimes, they have less control over what it is that they’re creating. I don’t know. Do you think that’s the case?
Laub:
Yes.
Jehs:
Yes. Exactly.
Laub:
That’s the reason. To lose the controlling is worst what could happen to the design.
Jehs:
If you become a manager of your studio, you have to take care that everyone has something to do. I think we prefer to do less but on a level where we are happy with is. Before we give a design to a client which is not perfect, we don’t give anything. So we say, “We had no idea. I’m sorry,” “I think it’s not been good enough. So you have maybe to wait one year, or we don’t know,” so, our clients, they know when they come with a briefing or with an idea what we could do, that they maybe wait just a week or maybe half a year or maybe they never will get something, so …
Arkitektura:
Amazing. That’s fascinating. So a client comes to you, a client that knows you probably … potentially not and they say, “We’d like you to design X,” whatever it might be, and if you so feel inspired, that inspiration can come right away or it might take a few months or it may never come and that’s a risk for them.
Jehs:
Maybe also for us when the client is new, but we prefer only to give away the perfect designs and if we have the feeling that we have to make a compromise and that it’s not good enough. So, it’s a piece of our personality we give away so it should fits to us. It should be like our kids. And if you have not the right feeling about it, we prefer not to give the child away.
Arkitektura:
You say perfect and perfect is a really difficult word I think for people to wrap their heads around, and of course, perfect is different for every person, what do you mean perfect?
Jehs:
When the product tells us that we cannot add anything and when we cannot remove anything and when the product explains the story we build in the product, the product has to tell to us and to other people.
Laub:
This is the way to design which comes from the School of Ulm. In our university, we had professors which came from the School of Ulm so the idea of that is instilled in us and that means form, [inaudible 00:11:06], function. So, if we have an idea for a product and the idea is strong and the idea is telling something, it’s easier to design all the details and all maybe the product family because the product tells you how it should look like. The function tells you how it should work. The aesthetic tells you how it should be because of the function. And it’s not something which was invented at the School of Ulm because Charles [Imz 00:11:49] worked like that. So just before had been designers who worked very successful until today, the products are like that and are perfect, more or less perfect or way near to the perfect situation.
Laub:
This is what we like and what we think is the right way to design because we are industrial designers, so we focus on designs which are in maybe high quantities and high numbers produced and live for a long time.
Arkitektura:
We know and I think of industrial design … well, interestingly, Charles and Ray Eames were also a couple. I mean not that you’re a couple but we’re also two people working fluidly together to create beautiful things, so I can understand why you would reference them. It’s interesting that you call yourself industrial designers and when I think of industrial design, I think of Apple computers or Braun or whatever, all these products that we use that have electronics involved with them but when I think of you, I think of furniture, and I wonder why you make that distinction.
Jehs:
Yeah. I mean it’s always the same. So we learned and it was also interesting when I worked, for example, in New York, in the office, that it’s all the same process. It doesn’t matter if you design a Polaroid camera or the interior of a Learjet or a John Deere tractor or a chair or a telephone because it’s all made industrial. It’s mass production, more or less. I mean big numbers are the difference and it’s the same thing, it’s an industrial product, and this is what we learned. And we make no difference, so we can design everything. It doesn’t matter. We also design our lives. I mean design is a thinking, how you see the world and how you use things, how you design your life, you design a product, you design the handling of the products, you design the interface of the products, so it’s all the same.
Laub:
And I think the industrial way to design furniture is different, to design nice objects, what you can see in the market. They are designers, they design a nice stool, a nice bowl or whatever, and it is maybe only nice, it’s not intelligent in production, intelligent in choosing the technologies for the right long life process. Things like that are interesting for us, and I think this is also a reason why we are strong in the contract market for furniture because there, it’s very important a furniture is an investment and it should stay long time, it should be stable, high quality and it has not so much to do with …
Jehs:
Decoration.
Laub:
… decoration or other processes which are or interior architecture. So that it’s only part of the interior architecture and that’s the reason why it is decorative.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. I think what’s beautiful about really well-made furniture is that it stays in your life for a long time, and therefore, it accrues all these memories along with it. I mean all the things that happened on your couch, all the conversations you had with your children there. Maybe as our children grow older, the first time we met their fiancee, who will become their fiancee or whatever it might be. It’s very special to have furniture for a very long time and yet, so many people shop at other places where you can buy beautiful things that are disposable within a few years, and those have value too, but there’s something very particular about making something really well to last.
Arkitektura:
It’s interesting, I have a kind of a technical question. So when you, and I hope this isn’t inappropriate, but I am really curious, when you price for a job, when you say like it’s going to cost this much to produce this, do you take on the price that it will cost for the engineer and all the other people and do you subcontract them or do you have the company find those people to do the subcontracting and all you do is take the pay for the design? I’m just curious.
Laub:
No, no, it’s both. If a client comes to us, it costs nothing, so we just get the design and then, all the other costs, which are in the process of the development of a product, the company takes care of these costs so that we don’t have to handle this because this could also cost us time. And this is what I like a lot at our jobs. So, we start designing and we are finish when we are finish, not when the budget is over or an amount of ours are over. And the fact that the money is cut away from the work is important to me. I mean if a product is successful, the client earns money and we earn money and if the product is not good and not successful, nobody earns money. I think that’s fair.
Jehs:
Yeah.
Arkitektura:
It’s very interesting. I’m sure that’s really unusual to do it that way.
Laub:
Maybe but it’s very easy to handle.
Arkitektura:
Yeah, I like that. And plus, it keeps you focused on what it is that you really want to do, which is design. So what is it that you really love about design, I know that’s such a big question but I’m really curious, why do you love what you do? What does it turn you on everyday like here you’re been doing this for 25 years, more than 25 years and you still feel excited about it. Why?
Jehs:
It’s just really a great thing that you materialize your ideas, and you see the intelligence of your thoughts in the product or maybe if you’re not intelligent, you see the opposite maybe.
Arkitektura:
The lack of intelligence in the product.
Laub:
And the process is also nice because it’s like a little bit if you do sport, I mean it’s very hard to do sport but there’s a goal. There’s something in the end, which makes you lucky. So, this moment that you found something that you … I would not say it’s a climax but it is a nice feeling and it’s a big satisfaction to work and in the end, to get a really nice solution, and I think this is something humans, something normal, all the scientists work like that, mathematics, designers. Who else? Architects. It’s always to find this nice moment.
Jehs:
I think that’s typical human. I mean if you think of maybe 100,000 years ago when there is someone sitting in the cold and he has the idea to make a fire and just in the end manage to make the fire to get warm, it’s a great feeling. You are very satisfied and this is the same thing with the design, it’s a very human process, I think, or if you have a problem, you need to build a knife to cut something and then, you build it and then, you can solve all your problems with your knife. If you look at all the people, they have their hobbies, they build maybe a landscape in the basement of their house with all the trains and they play and this is what they have in mind, what they want to create and they create it, and then, they’re happy. So, I think it’s all the same.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. You see it in these little ways today. My brother-in-law was trying to learn something that it was my husband had shown him and so, he was going to do it for the same time. I mean it was nothing, it was like tying something to make it strong and trying something on to the roof of our car, but he turned to me, he said, “I love these moments of having to figure something out and the satisfaction I get once I figured it out.” It happens on these small scales and it happens on large scales when you’re doing something that’s going to be mass-produced. It’s true, it is very human.
Jehs:
Yes. I try to explain to my son all the time, it could make you happy to clean the road because when the road is dirty and you clean it and it’s shining, you had a good feeling about that. It’s very little and very small but it’s all the same.
Arkitektura:
It’s very true. It’s very true. That’s how I get my satisfaction, I love cleaning.
Laub:
Okay.
Arkitektura:
You know, when you are going through all the different things that were designed and where that term is used, you said designing your life and there’ve been several books that come out around designing your life. In fact, last year, we did a podcast with Herman Miller, podcasters with Herman Miller based on a book called Design the Life You Love. You’ve obviously designed your professional life perfectly for you, it really fits to exactly what you need. What are other parts of your life that you’ve designed?
Laub:
I mean it’s the family life and the life of your … yeah, of your family but then, our job is always to optimize things, and my wife tells me always, “You can optimize things in your work but you cannot optimize humans in your family. This doesn’t work.” But I try also to optimize humans and this doesn’t work.
Arkitektura:
Do you agree with that? Do you agree it’s true?
Jehs:
I mean in ourselves, I think we have our imagination, and we know that we can design things, and it works. When my son likes to wear jogging pants what I hate, I cannot do anything about it, so …
Arkitektura:
Yeah. It is hard. But no, it’s hard. You can’t shape them in that way.
Jehs:
No. No.
Laub:
No.
Jehs:
And maybe it’s better that you can’t do this. I mean they have to find their own way.
Arkitektura:
Yeah, absolutely.
Laub:
That brings it back on a … Yes.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. I’m just going to go back to this keeping your studio small. I mean there’s this idea of success being big, big studio, big staff, big products. I actually read an interview that was really short with you, with the two of you, someone asked you what’s your ultimate dream or what’s the next product you want to design and as a joke, I think that you wanted to design a skyscraper, which I think you were joking, right?
Laub:
Yeah.
Jehs:
Yeah. I mean skyscraper …
Laub:
No. [inaudible 00:24:46]
Jehs:
… it’s not easy. When we started designing furniture, we said that designing a skyscraper is really easy. You just find a shape for something and then, it’s there. And then, you sit, you have all your employees and they have to find out what’s going on inside the skyscraper.
Laub:
Yes. This is our concept so if we would design buildings, we only would do the concept and then, we give it away.
Arkitektura:
Exactly. That’s the way to do it.
Laub:
Yes.
Jehs:
It’s much more difficult to design a chair where you can see all the structure and the skyscraper, you hide everything somewhere under the [skin 00:25:24].
Arkitektura:
I hope you design a skyscraper. But the only reason I was saying this was because … what is success. I think a lot of, particularly the students that come to your studio, they’re wanting to figure out what success is for them, and it may be a very personal question for each person but how would you define it?
Jehs:
Maybe the definition of success is different today than at the old days when we had been students because there we went to the Milan Furniture Fair when we had been students and we saw all the great names and the great companies and the great designers doing great things. So the dream was one day, we would like to succeed to have one product at the Milan Fair and the goal was, of course, to work with the great Italian brands.
Arkitektura:
Cassina being your favorite, I think, right?
Jehs:
Yes. Yes.
Arkitektura:
Cassina was your favorite.
Jehs:
That was the big goal because no German before did something for Cassina. So this was, for us, the great thing. Then, one day, we managed to have a product collection there, and we have some friends, maybe you also know them, it’s Eoos from Vienna, and we know them for a long time and they’ve been looking at all the sofas and armchairs at Cassina and they said, “Oh, this is really great, but we’re not happy for you because what are you doing the next 30 years.”
Arkitektura:
Wow.
Jehs:
So you reach the peak and what’s next. In fact, it is difficult then because you have to keep the level and the work also. I mean we work for an American company, for a Scandinavian company so it was all good. Maybe today, the success is again different because it’s making great products for good companies. Not only to the one product, maybe it’s also to change the face of a company, to make many products, to make collections, to design a company, it’s maybe different and more difficult to grow together with … Also, as we grew together as a designer team, to grow together with your clients is also important.
Jehs:
And then, again, to have a small studio to do everything on your own. I mean the design process, to do on your own, this is success. And to be happy, not too stressful, not 20 hours work a day, just maybe eight hours, seven hours a day, having enough time for the family and for other activities. Also, to find the right balance between the professional and the private life.
Arkitektura:
Do you feel like you have that?
Jehs:
I guess.
Arkitektura:
Good. Erik Spiekermann is a graphic designer that I interviewed a couple of years ago or maybe it was last year, I don’t remember exactly when. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him.
Laub:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes.
Arkitektura:
Okay. He was talking about how he chooses his clients. He’s a very straightforward person. I mean Germans are very straightforward from the Germans that I’ve met. Okay, my knowledge is limited. I’m guessing. One of the things that he said that’s always stayed on my mind especially now that I have my own business is I don’t work with assholes. That was one of his lines.
Jehs:
It’s very true.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. And I was wanting to know what are the standards you use in choosing your clients?
Jehs:
The chemistry has to work. The client has to be your friend or your brother or whatever and he has the same roots, the same culture, the same understanding, the same ability maybe that he can read your mind and the other way around and then, you can create something great together. And if you don’t like your client, you have to stop, you cannot do anything good. Nothing good will come out of this cooperation.
Laub:
Or there’s no fun to work because people are not sympathic, and sometimes, the client is not only one person, it’s also a team of engineers and product developer and whatever, and if there is someone we cannot work with, we tell it to the client that we should switch to someone else because it’s not possible to work. Or what we also had, if some of our interns, they get us nervous, if they are complicated, if one person works against the overall mission …
Jehs:
Mission.
Laub:
… it is really hard to work for all the people, so it is very important that we all work in the same direction, so then it’s better not to work with this person and this happened only one time in 20 years that we said or I said, “Sorry, but I do not come to work today because I have to work at home, otherwise, I cannot concentrate.” And sometimes, the clients could be the same way but if we see that … we speak about it with the client, there’s no problem at all, but we don’t search a work like that.
Laub:
Now, we have a network of clients. We can work very good with them. We do more than one product for them. This helps because as Markus said, it’s very important to understand the mind of the other person and of the client. The things get better then, the second and the third project will be better. What we hate is if clients come to us because they collect designers. Mostly, they say, “Oh, we would like to have a long time work with you,” but then, we can see in the next fair, they work with this designer and that designer and they collect nations or whatever. We have the feeling that the products are not good enough.
Arkitektura:
You’re not valued.
Laub:
Yeah. Yes. You have to understand the DNA of the company. Then, you have to understand the right technology they can work with, and maybe the culture because the Americans are different to the Italians. You need a [wire 00:33:02] for that. Maybe it’s the second or the third product.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. It’s true, they are very different, Americans and Italians.
Laub:
Yes. Also Germans and the Scandinavian, they are all different. French of course. This is always interesting and this, we like this a lot to work with different cultures and nations and companies, to understand also the culture, to get deep into this matter and to see then that the products are then different, because our mission to design products, they always look like Jehs + Laub and it doesn’t matter who is the manufacturer of the product so it should be like … we always say it should be like in the family. There is the father and the mother and the child, and of course, the child looks different when the mother is different.
Arkitektura:
Absolutely. Now, silly question, did you ever debate between Jehs + Laub or Laub + Jehs?
Laub:
You mean because of the name?
Arkitektura:
Yeah, who comes first.
Laub:
It’s alphabetic. It’s very German.
Arkitektura:
Very interesting.
Laub:
Very German. To run out of the discussion. Yes, we had the discussion at the beginning.
Arkitektura:
Very cool.
Jehs:
In the beginning, a 5-minutes discussion.
Laub:
You know, Markus came with the idea to do it alphabet because his name is before mine.
Arkitektura:
Yeah, exactly, that’s why. It’s exactly why he wanted it that way. Is your home filled with your products? Is your home filled with all your beautiful furniture?
Jehs:
Yes, but it’s too small to get all the products in.
Arkitektura:
Nice. But you sit on one of your couches.
Jehs:
Yes.
Laub:
Yes. Yes. And we tested and we change it always and my wife always is saying, “Oh, I would like to have a nice, classic again, a product from you.” But he makes it a little bit.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. Well, I actually have a personal question. I’ve asked several personal questions but this might be a little too personal. Do your wives ever feel jealous of your relationship, of your understanding of each other?
Jehs:
No, never. My wife always tells me, “Do you know how lucky you can be that you have this partner?” Because she knows it from her family and from other people when … for example, you have a business with one or two partners and maybe you get successful, then, the problems begin and how bad it can end and so, this is … I know it’s rare that it works.
Arkitektura:
Yeah, it is. It is really.
Jehs:
Yeah.
Arkitektura:
I read that you had said that one of the things that you feel is missing now in the current education of young designers is this element of discourse, and I’m bringing this back to the beginning of our conversation. I don’t know if that’s across the board in schools all over the world that they’re shying away from discourse. I know that’s true for certainly design students in the Bay Area in San Francisco, but I wonder what are your thoughts on that and how should that be more incorporated into education?
Jehs:
I mean maybe it started with all the electronic possibilities that through this, we’re able to make nice renderings on the computer and they spend more time in making great renderings instead of making concepts, and also, that the team working process maybe is getting less meaningful because the students have all the possibilities to do everything on the computer, they go home, maybe they Skype. And as we had been students, we had been sitting in one room together, we had been discussing, we drank coffee, we drank beer, we spent the night there and we had great discussions in reality, seeing each other. Maybe this is something which is very important that you go back to the analog team-building not to the digital team building because it makes a big difference if you see the other one and you can touch the same paper instead of doing all about Skype and everybody’s sitting alone at home and things, about things and there’s no discussion.
Laub:
So you mean they should drink more beer?
Jehs:
Yes, of course. Definitely.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. That’s always the moral to every story, drink more beer.
Jehs:
Yes.
Arkitektura:
It’s interesting how much you must always be giving your students advice and one of the things, and you’ve said some of them in what we’ve just been talking about but one of the things that I think would be also an interesting advice for them, or a great guide for them having worked with you is that you knew that it would take you 10 years to attain a level of success and stability and it did, in fact, take 10 years, right?
Jehs:
Yes.
Arkitektura:
And I think now, we want things to happen right away. Technology also has a reason, feeds that desire and we think, “Oh my gosh, if success hasn’t hit then, forget it. I’m a failure.” But it’s important to remember that it can take time.
Jehs:
Yeah. And if we speak with our friends, with the other designers who are also successful and well-known, they always tell the same thing that it take at least 10 years.
Laub:
It’s also because you don’t have the experience in the beginning. For example, if we go to our students and we tell them to design dishes, then, we can find out that they never had been in a hotel or in a really nice restaurant. They have no experience about it. So, things like that that if you never had been in a conference room, it’s not because only to do a chair, it’s to understand how people talk there, how people sit there and how people would like to show themselves there. All this experience we got later. That’s the reason why we also had been our success later and I think mostly the designers get their success after 10 years.
Arkitektura:
If they’re good.
Jehs:
Yes.
Laub:
Yes.
Arkitektura:
If they’re good. You know I ask this often and I’m not sure if it’s actually a good question, but I sometimes feel like it’s a good question to end on, but what do you feel most proud of?
Laub:
As a designer or as a person?
Arkitektura
Is there a difference?
Laub:
Yes. For me, yes. Yes. I’m very proud of my kids, family. And if you ask me as a designer, I’m very proud of all other thing that it worked. In the beginning, we decided to go together and run our company with no money and no client and we asked ourself, “Are we able to get success?” and we said, “If we look to the world and to other designers, we make it better so we will be successful any time.”
Arkitektura:
That’s great.
Laub:
And I’m very proud that it happened. It was not sure in the way but now, we are more satisfied that it came like that.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. And you?
Jehs:
Proud is a strange word for me.
Arkitektura:
Yeah. I think it’s a strange word for a lot of people.
Jehs:
Yes. I’m happy. I’m happy that I have a great family, I am happy that I have a great partner and I’m happy that I can work how I ever wanted to work, and it did work out and we can live in a very nice way. Yes, it’s a great luck.
Arkitektura:
Great luck. I think it’s really, I mean after our conversation and just what I’ve read but really, after this conversation, when you stay true, really true to what it is that how you want to work and what it is you want to do, then, it’s not luck, it’s just that it becomes unique, and therefore, when you offer something unique, then, you succeed.
Jehs:
Maybe the German meaning of luck is different than in this combination, but I’m happy that I can live this life.
Arkitektura:
Well, thank you so much.
Jehs:
Thank you.
Laub:
My pleasure.
Jehs:
Thank you.
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