DESIGN IN MIND: Paul Cocksedge

The work that Paul Cocksedge Studio creates is wide ranging, seating, lighting, public interventions, architectural designs, but the through line is a sense of it being made for the people to engage with. All people. Paul Cocksedge grew up in London. He studied design there, and it was at the Royal College of Art where he met Joana Pinho, a fellow designer who would ultimately become co-founder of the studio. Together, they have created a body of work that can be seen all over the world. There’s an organic quality to a design that emerges from their studio, yet the work is highly precise and engages technology in unexpected ways.

Having recently completed an exhibition with the prestigious Carpenters Gallery Workshop, Paul Cocksedge is well aware that his best work has yet to come. It’s hard to believe when you look at the studio’s vast portfolio. We spoke with Paul when he was in London and we were in San Francisco. Of course, now with COVID the sound quality may not be as it always has been, but the heart quality is definitely there. Stay tuned.

Paul Cocksedge:
I’m a Londoner born in North London. A place called Turnpike Lane, which is in the borough of Haringey. It still is. It’s a very down to earth working class area, Turnpike Lane, that is, and I’m one of three. So I’ve got a younger brother by three years and an older sister. So I’m in the middle. And I popped out in postcode N22 6AL, and it all started there.

…there’s a vulnerability when you open up your sketchbook or your mind and you collaborate with someone.

Arkitektura:
And your parents, are they English as well?

Paul Cocksedge:
So I have some Greek Cypriot blood in me, and I have some Welsh blood and some English blood. So it’s like many of us, there’s a cocktail going on. And it’s actually interesting. Physically speaking, I get my dark hair from my mum and I get other qualities from my dad, who’s Welsh. My dad is actually, he’s 4 feet 10.

So he’s a very small man, height-wise. As a character, he’s very, very big and an extremely important person in my life, as well as my mom.

Arkitektura:
And why is he important in your life? What is it about him?

Paul Cocksedge:
I was thinking about my dad a lot. I mean, I think many of us are thinking of their parents during this strange COVID time, because we’ve had that moment where we can’t see them as much or we have to be very careful when we see them. So there’s many times when I’ve been thinking about my dad’s character. And I think it sounds not serious talking about his height being 4 feet 10. But actually that’s a big part of his character because he got bullied a lot as a kid and that meant that actually in reaction to that, he’s a very kind of an emotionally driven person. He sticks up for himself. He sticks up for his family. He’s definitely someone who doesn’t accept if someone is talking bad to his family or… He has a fire in him that’s coming from insecurity.

We feel very safe around him. He never shows any kind of any negativity towards us, but he looks after his family. And my mum is someone who’s had a very difficult job. She was bringing up three kids. As I say, I come from a very working class family. There was a lot of complicated dynamics with money. There was some money and then we lost some money. Money is a component of my upbringing.

But the good side of the experience I had is I was brought up in a very multi-cultural part of London around so many different types of people from all over the world. It was that mix that influence, that kind of down to earthness, which it really helps my designs, because ultimately I want my work to communicate with people and to bring joy and to benefit in some way people’s lives. And I think my upbringing has meant that I’ve always been around people from all over the world and that’s inspiring.

Arkitektura:
I think often, and I’ve spoken about this with my husband who also grew up working class, but was very much in the design world, and I wonder to what extent, like what challenges that raises? Because the design world is not working class because these objects are expensive and there’s a certain level of cultural awareness and potentially education, but potentially education that you need to understand and appreciate design pieces, a bench that sort of rolls. You’ve got to kind of think outside of what your comfort zone might be. So how does the working class background intersect with your identity as a designer?

Paul Cocksedge:
It’s a really good question, a really interesting question. And I think my background, isn’t from the arts or design. As a kid, my parents weren’t taking me to art museums. They’ll take me to the science museum or the natural history museum. But because art and design wasn’t part of their background, it was something that they never really showed us that dimension. By the way, they got me doing ballroom dancing. I was horse riding. I was fencing. I was running, basketball.

They allowed the children to do things that they’ve never done before. I learned piano. They were incredible. But the design or the arts, that didn’t come into my life. I probably didn’t go to a London art gallery until I was in my 20s. And at that time I was already in the Royal College of Art. Looking back, that was quite a strange thing to discover when you go back in time. But I think when I work on something, of course, I can show design friends. The response is not in a bad way, but it’s almost predictable or we’ll end up having a discussion that is from a similar standpoint.

The most surprising responses are when I do my public pieces, when a studio works on public projects and we’re stood around and people will walk by, and we enter these conversations. The people who we’re talking to may not be from designer art backgrounds, but what they’re talking about is for me so much more creative fuel. It really inspires. I really feel as though like I’m doing something that’s genuine.

I love doing different types of work for different reasons. But your question of, let’s say, let’s use that expression, the working-class background, that is something that I haven’t really considered until recently, but my work, our work, the studio’s work is about a lot of the time public projects, ideas come from the street, and it’s about how to communicate to as many people as possible, not just design and art lovers.

Arkitektura:
The good way. That’s a great way of connecting the two. And it’s lovely how much your parents exposed you to it, and I’d love to dig deep into that, but the appreciation, and love, and reverence is certainly coming through. Hopefully they’ll hear this, and they’ll feel that. Let’s just quickly talk about your mom too. So she was raising three children. So you have a little baby brother then?

Paul Cocksedge:
Yes. My brother’s name is Mark, Mark Cocksedge and he’s doing incredibly well. He’s a photographer. He photographs all of our work and he’s part of our studio and he’s doing his own creative journey. Of course, I’m an older brother and I know him and he tells me not to give him advice, but then how can I not give him advice when I’m seven years older. I care for him. I’m very annoying and I push him. But in the end, he’ll tell me off at 5:00 in the afternoon, and then at 7:30 we’ll be sat opposite to each other having a drink.

So very close. And that relationship is really interesting because as I say, he’s a photographer. He’s followed all of our projects. He’s always been backstage as in just taking pictures. We have this archive of photography of me and the studio working. He’s part of the family, so he sees everything.

Arkitektura:
It goes to show you how much a stable and encouraging home life, how much that foundation really sets everything for the future.

Paul Cocksedge:
Yeah. I think my parents, they gave up a lot of themselves in a lot of ways. I mean, they instinctively did it. They wouldn’t have had it any other way, but what made them happy was allowing us to pursue our growth in any direction. And that still gives them pleasure. My mom and dad are so proud of us. And I think they were so supporting. In my own way now, I’m a bit more secure because we’ve been doing this design business for a long time. So now, I’m trying to help out them as well. They’re in another chapter of their lives and I love being part of it.

Arkitektura:
So thank you so much for that. You definitely have to share this with them. If I’m correct, and I don’t know if you just sort of said… I want to find out how this resonates now. You had said that one of the reasons why you thought of being a designer, although you’re already at the RCA this point, but we’re seeing how joyful Ron Arad was and thinking, “I want to be that.” But it must have come before that, and I’m curious as to when… Not when you realized you wanted to be a designer, but when suddenly you started realizing the effects that aesthetics had on you, the effect that beauty in objects had on you.

I don’t know how early that came yesterday as I was at a lighting store, and I saw this light that was a light similar to the one that was near my mom’s bed. Very beautiful that she had on while she was studying to be a lawyer when I was a child. And it conjured up all these emotions and also I was thinking, “Gosh, I really have always loved how beautiful that light is.” I was very young when that was happening. So I’m just wondering when that kind of entered into your life, the awareness of beauty and objects?

Paul Cocksedge:
I think what I find interesting when I look back, I think a lot of what was driving me was the conversations with different people and the way that was making me feel emotionally. It wasn’t really object driven. If I think back to when I was my first girlfriend, her father was, and still is a graphic designer. He went to the Royal College. I remember meeting him and he was such a different person to my family. He was ex-RCA, free thinker, very passionate about life in a different way to what I was used to. And he was producing and creating things.

I can’t necessarily remember the work, but I remember his attitude to life and the sparkle in his eye and the thirst of… You use the word beauty to kind of pursue a creative life. And I remember being attracted to that. I actually went to the same college as he did. I went to Sheffield Hallam. So I was almost mimicking what he was doing because I was just drawn to his outlook.

So I went to Sheffield, I learned design and I definitely wasn’t the best person to graduate from there. I learned the nuts and bolts. I was creative. I had a thirst to learn. I was learning how to make things. I was learning how to have original thoughts and pursue them and start talking about ideas. Then as you mentioned, Ron Arad was an incredible intersection for my creative journey because again I met this character who was playful, mysterious. He was showing his work in Milan. His work was unimaginable for someone like myself.

I was looking at these objects. How does someone create these pieces? I was drawn to that. I was drawn to that character. I was drawn to other tutors, this creative freedom. So I know what you’re asking in terms of is there objects that kind of pushed me along. But for me it was more about my personal, emotional development and how different people were inspiring that side of my character.

Arkitektura:
How about feeling discouraged? Were there times where that came into play?

Paul Cocksedge:
Yeah. I mean, even now part of the process is insecurity. I don’t see that as a negative word. Insecurity has been part of a lot of projects because you start something. You have no idea where you’re going. One thing I don’t do in my creative process is repeat. So I’m in a territory that’s quite lonely. I don’t know what’s going to come, if anything’s going to come. When I go back to the Royal College, I mean, again, I got in. I got into this place, which for me even now seems like another reality.

I mean, the Royal College of Art, there’s so much kind of pressure, even on the title of the institution. And when you go there, you appear on South Ken walking through these beautiful buildings, opposite the park and going in. Of course, I think every student is excited, but there’s insecurity there. And that’s a part of the creative process. And I’ve kind of got used to it now. It’s just a part of it. It makes things difficult, but once you get to an idea that you’re happy with it, you feel as though you’ve gone through a complete creative journey.

Arkitektura:
Yeah. That is a really great feeling. I understand that. I feel that even… I mean, as a journalist building stories or building something, it feels like a desert in how are you going to scope this thing? And then suddenly it comes and it works, and you think, “Oh my gosh, I made it.” I think through the process you’re kind of like, “Why did I ever decide to do this? I’m never going to make it. Forget it.”

So your studio, where were you when you decided to open the studio, with your partner? I mean, was there a conversation where you said, “Okay, let’s do this.” Kind of like getting married. “Okay. Let’s get married. Let’s do it. We’ll go for it.” Did it happen that way?

Paul Cocksedge:
I mean having a business partner that you completely trust and you share everything with, not just work with is a form of marriage. And Joana Pinho who is one of the most important people in my life. She’s part of my family. She gets along so well with my sister and my mum and dad, and of course my brother. She’s part of it. And I met her at the Royal College of Art in the canteen. We ended up being frat mates together. And then we collaborated on a few projects. She was studying communication, art design. We both graduated.

I carried on in my bedroom, in Ladbroke Grove, making things. I pushed the bed up against the wall. I just carried on. It was like my practice just carried on after the Royal College. I didn’t get a job. She actually got a fantastic job at Pentagram doing graphic design. And this opportunity happened with Ingo Mauer. She supported that. She was interested in that. She saw an excitement, a freedom. She helped set up that show. At the end of that show, she’s said, “Look, why don’t…” It was her idea. “Why don’t we set up a company?”

I was 21 or something, and I was like, “No, this doesn’t make sense. It’s my name or something like this.” I had this ego thing happening. It was like, “How would this work? How could I share 50% of something?” I remember my dad at that point, he was, “Son, 50% of nothing is nothing.” It was an easy comment. He said it flippantly, but it was true.

We had nothing. We had no family money. We had no contacts. All we had was ideas, and passion, and creativity. Her interest for her own personal reasons were driving her to be fascinated with how the business of design works. So my passion was how the creative side of design and creativity can kind of happen. We joined together and we went on this journey. And even now, it’s a roller coaster. But every day is full of emotion, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Arkitektura:
I love what your dad said that 50% of nothing is nothing thing. It’s so true.

Paul Cocksedge:
It’s true because people get so hung up on those things at the early years. And I think that some advice I would give to young creatives is if you connect with someone and your work can get better because of a creative connection, don’t be scared of that partnership because you need a balance to your creative side. And the challenge, the real challenge is finding someone who respects creativity, protects creativity, but can be a business strategy kind of brain at the same point. So I had that. We had that combination and we cherish that.

Arkitektura:
Yeah. So while you were at RCA, were you dear friends? I mean, how did that affect your friendship to become partners?

Paul Cocksedge:
I wasn’t going to talk about this. We at one point were a couple and I think we had a lot of good years together. Really, we learned a lot from each other. We traveled, we started this company. As I say, we started it from nothing. It was so strange looking back at that. But we had that. We were intimate, we’re in a relationship, and we had this business that we grew. I think just being, of course, just open. And I don’t see it as a failure. It was just the way that we grew.

It was hard to maintain the intensity of a work life and a personal life. So I say this again, like heartedly we decided to not be together on a Saturday. On a Monday, we were back to work. Can you believe that? That was probably one of the most difficult years of my life really, because we were trying to hold the studio together. But there were times in that year, which were very, very difficult as you can imagine.

Looking back, it was tough. We did it. It was a positive thing. And as I say, because we’ve gone through it, because we are… I’m godfather to her child. As I say, our families are interconnected. That trust I have in her running probably the most important part of the company, which is the business, the contracts. I mean, I don’t look at any of that. And that just shows how much I trust her.

Arkitektura:
Yeah. It’s wonderful that you made it through that. I mean, what a testament to your studio. Really incredible. Also, really great to have had that experience. I’m not saying this necessarily feeds into your work and your creativity, but still, it could potentially, without you realizing. Anyways, when you think about your value system, what you value, when you’re talking about kindness, what are some of your other values, and personal values that are reflected in the work, as a whole?

Paul Cocksedge:
Loyalty is a really big thing for me because when I’m working creatively with, of course, Joana or our small team, I don’t see it as work. And in a way, I would find that odd if the person I’m talking to or collaborating with saw it as work. Of course they do. Of course they do. But I open up to that person and because of that, as I say, there’s a vulnerability when you open up your sketchbook or your mind and you collaborate with someone.

So there’s a lot of trust that over the years that I’ve built up with different people who I’ve collaborated with, who’ve been with our studio for some years. I think I haven’t been let down by anyone, and they’ve always known that they were part of something extremely genuine. The fuel of the work was passion. People come and go in the studio, but the creative connection to the work is timeless. And I need those encounters I have with people to be genuine, and that trust, and loyalty to be there. And it is. I’m friends with most people who have left the studio.

Arkitektura:
I thought you were going to say that… Well, what I would have assumed is that you would have said that because of what we talked about earlier in the interview, which is that where you grew up was a whole mix of people, one of your value system, one of your values is to really be open to making work that is accessible to the communities that you grew up around. Accessible and playful. Those are things that I see define you in certain ways.

Paul Cocksedge:
I suppose I was given an example of the creative process, what happens within the studio. But I totally agree with what you said. I mean, ultimately, as I’ve mentioned.

Speaker 3:
I mean, of course design is part of all our daily existence. I mean, everything around us has been designed and when you think about that, you’re like, “Oh my gosh, everything’s been designed. It’s crazy.” But it’s true because everything has. Some thought has gone into it. We don’t necessarily think of it that way. We don’t realize there are humans behind this that brought their whole background and experience to say designing something as beautiful as a gorgeous chair to something as seemingly as this Paper Mate pen, but so ubiquitous. So how does a design piece, or a space, or a building, or a seeding or whatever it might be really support the people that it’s created for?

Paul Cocksedge:
I do say this sometimes. I say the street is an extension of our studio. And the reason is, is because in London we’re squeezed into these tight spaces. It’s very expensive. We work quite close to each other. So you naturally have to go outside. And in some way, some ways that’s a negative thing, right? Why should creators be forced into small spaces? But on the other side, what I’ve realized, especially for myself is if I was stuck in my own creative bubble thinking about what I like, what I this, what I that, that leads to one outcome.

But because I hit the streets, it’s often challenged because I’m seeing so many different peoples, especially in London, all over the place in so many different backgrounds. That gives it a rawness. It gives it something that sort of… It kind of grounds it. Creatives, if I had the biggest student in the world and all the machines in the world, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m going to produce more meaningful work. So the street is really important to the process.

Arkitektura:
To come back full circle to your parents, I imagine that they’re very, very, very proud of you, and your aunts. That’s so sweet that your aunt kept all those clippings, and it’s just really lovely. What are you really, really proud of? In what ways are you really proud of them, both of them, and maybe even your family as a whole, like including your brother and sister?

Paul Cocksedge:
I think like most families, this is full of different characters. I mean, as I said, I’ve talked about my dad. My mum is always laughing. She’s light. She’s generous. She doesn’t judge in any single way. I mean, London, UK is going for quite judgmental period. There’s a lot of shouting in parliament. There’s a lot of intense discussions on the street. And my mum doesn’t follow things intensely, but in a way she doesn’t need to, because her attitude to life is non-judgemental, she floats, and that keeps a very pure connection that we have with my mum.

Her laughter is something that I just always hear. She’s always smiling and people connect to that. And that lightness with my dad’s fire and determination, and “Don’t take no shit from no one, son” attitude is a very interesting balance that they’ve given all of us. We’d hope. We’re quite light on one level, but we’re very driven and passionate, and follow our passions and have confidence that comes from my upbringing.

So thank you to my parents. And as I say, I miss them. This whole COVID thing has created this distance, which I feel very uncomfortable with. And I hope it resolves itself soon.

Arkitektura:
Yeah, it will. It will resolve itself. And then all that love that built up over the time that you can spend together will be like some love explosion. It’ll be very exciting.

Paul Cocksedge:
What I’ve enjoyed about this discussion is most design discussions that I have, and I don’t do many of these things, by the way. I’m usually talking about the work. I’m talking about the nitty gritty of why I did it, who commissioned it, how much did it cost? All these types of things. This almost felt like a talking to a friend that I’ve only met you, but I feel very kind of at ease. I think it’s very healthy to talk about the emotional side of what drives someone and you’ve unlocked something in me. I feel very at peace.

Arkitektura:
Thank you so much. You put yourself out there as a designer. It is a very emotional engagement and you bring particularly the good ones, really bring this whole wealth of their history and their parents’ history and how that all manifests. I mean, if you think about the things that you spoke of about what you appreciate about people in your life, it’s all the things that show up in your work. That joyfulness, that kindness for the people. I mean, all of that, that gathering. So it’s really interesting when you think about that, then you are actually talking about the work. You’re not directly, but you are probably talking about it more than anything you could say about, say a piece.

Paul Cocksedge:
I’m so pleased that comes across. I very much enjoyed it and keep on going what you’re doing really. It’s really special and I’ve really enjoyed it. And as I say, I’ve learned a lot. So let’s do a chapter two very soon.

Arkitektura:
That was designer Paul Cocksedge who together with partner, Joana Pinho has established Paul Cocksedge Studio based in London. Their work can be seen at Carpenter’s Workshop Gallery. To see their whole collection, please visit paulcocksedgestudio.com. Design in Mind is a podcast series from Arkitektura based in San Francisco. Arkitektura curates the best design from around the world and makes it accessible through its retail spaces, live events, and this podcast.

Design in Mind is architecture’s way of honoring the life and work of some of the best designers today and celebrating the magic and beauty of design and design thinking.

Design in Mind is produced for Arkitektura by Sound Made Public. I’m your host, Arkitektura. To hear more, please visit arksf.com or go to iTunes, subscribe to Design in Mind. Rate the show. Tell us what you think. Thanks so much for listening.